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| Niti zavest niti zdrava pamet sami po sebi ne narekujeta, da so, da naj bodo ali da bi bile lahko Združene države svetovni žandar. | ||
| Robert McNamara | ||
Na svojem domu v Washingtonu je umrl Robert S. McNamara, ki je bil ameriški obrambni sekretar med vietnamsko vojno.
"Starost ga je prehitela," je dejala žena Diana in pojasnila, da ni bil bolan in je umrl mirno v spanju. Star je bil 93 let.
Na povabilo predsednika Johna F. Kennedyja je McNamara vodenje Pentagona prevzel leta 1961 in na položaju ostal tudi pod naslednjim predsednikom Lyndonom Johnsonom, preden se je leta 1968 umaknil. Istega leta je prevzel vodenje Svetovne banke in na njenem čelu ostal do leta 1981.
Čeprav se je McNamara odlikoval pri korporativnem vodenju kot predsednik avtomobilskega velikana Ford in pozneje kot pobudnik mednarodne finančne pomoči na čelu svetovne banke, pa se ga javnost spominja kot arhitekta vojne v Vietnamu, ki je bila ena najbolj grenkih preizkušenj v zgodovini ZDA.
"Tragični" simbol vojne
Za kritike vojne, v kateri je umrlo 58.000 ameriških vojakov, je bil McNamara simbol zgrešene politike in nekateri so konflikt označili za "McNamarovo vojno". A sam je odšel prav zaradi razhajanj s predsednikom Johnsonom in ostro kritiziral ameriško bombardiranje Severnega Vietnama ter nasprotoval povečevanju števila ameriških vojakov v državi.
Po odhodu iz Pentagona se je trudil razložiti svojo vlogo v vojni in se opravičeval za napake. O svojem življenju in delu se je razgovoril v dokumentarnem filmu Fog of War, ki je leta 2003 dobil tudi oskarja za najboljši dokumentrani film. V njem opisuje težke odločitve med vietnamsko vojno in kubansko raketno krizo.
McNamara se je zavzemal, da ZDA v vojno ne vstopijo potihoma, ampak je vztrajal, da se mora o tej odločitvi spregovoriti odkrito in pred kongresom. Kljub temu je Kennedy odobril rahlo povečanje števila vojakov, po atentatu nanj leta 1963 pa se je njegov naslednik Johnson odločil popustiti zahtevam generalom po občutnem povečanju vojaške navzočnosti.
McNamara je zavzeto izpolnil ukaze Johnsona v prepričanju, da bo vojna končana do božiča leta 1965. Toda pri tem ni računal na odpor proti ameriškemu posredovanju tako v Vietnamu kot tudi v domovini. Ko je leta 1967 kritiziral odločitev za bombardiranje Severnega Vietnama kot maščevanje za napade na ameriška oporišča na jugu države, je prišel v navzkriž s predsednikom, ki mu je v zameno za umik ponudil vodenje Svetovne banke.
Pri Svetovni banki se je izkazal v boju proti revščini in se lahko pohvali s povečanjem pomoči državam tretjega sveta. Ko je leta 1968 prevzel banko, je ta pomoč znašala milijardo dolarjev, ob njegovem odhodu leta 1981 pa 11,5 milijarde.
V spodnjem posnetku si lahko ogledate odlomek iz dokumentarnega filma Fog of War.
Fry in hell!
Hkm hkm kmkm... kulk nedolžnih vietnamskih civilistov je pa umrl, pa kulk jih čuti posledice še danes!? Kumrovc no , če se maš za človeka poglej še drugo plat zgodbe, ker vietnamci so tud ljudje!
Prijavi neprimerno vsebino
Iz pentagona v svetovno banko??
Vsi,ki v tem vidimo neko povezavo pa ispademo bolniki,ki v vsaki stvari vidijo zaroto :)))..."Normalnim" pa se to zdi čisto normalno :)))
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kwa pa je za tebe definicija normalnega cloveka ?
Casualties of war
Zelo dober, poučen in film, ki da misliti...
Ne to niso predsedniki!
To so bogatunske bankirske družine!
V spomin na stotisoče nedolžnih vietnamskih žrtev!
V dokumentarcu Fog of the War je McNamara sicer predstavil svoja stališča, vendar po moje z premajhno samo kritičnostjo in sploh z nezavedanjem grozodejstev, ki jih je pustila njihova država za sabo. Namesto tega je natresel nekaj "new age" (instant) modrosti, češ kaj je moral preživeti in kako ga je to izučilo.
By STANLEY HELLER
I propose that 91 year old Robert McNamara be arrested. No, I'm not suggesting he be tried for his role in planning the fire bombings of Japanese cities during World War II, or for being LBJ's Defense Secretary and architect of the war of aggression against Vietnam. Jail him for one much smaller act, the betrayal of sailors aboard the USS Liberty. While the Liberty was under a massive attack, Robert McNamara twice recalled the airplanes that a navy commander had sent out to defend them.
The crime took place on June 8, 1967 during Israel's "Six Day" war against Egypt, Syria and Jordan. On the third day of the conflict Israeli forces launched a two-hour air and naval attack on the USS Liberty which was in international waters 14 miles off the coast of Egypt. At least a dozen unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm, and shot 30 mm cannon shells and rockets into the ship over a period of a half hour. Then an assault followed from torpedo boats involving torpedoes and machine gun fire. 34 Americans were killed and 172 were wounded.
The attack on the Liberty began at 1358 (military time). The Liberty was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967 and the first thing hit after the gun mounts were the antennae and the bridge. Nevertheless the radio operator managed to send this distress signal from Captain McGonagle: "Under attack by unidentified jet aircraft, require immediate assistance." Eleven minutes later the USS Saratoga acknowledged receiving the message and Captain Joseph M. Tully ordered 12 F-4 jets and other refueling aircraft to go to the assistance of the Liberty and informed Sixth Fleet Commander Admiral William Martin. The planes were about 40 minutes away. They wouldn't have arrived in time to stop the air attack, but could have prevented the torpedo attacks in which the majority of sailors were killed. Yet within minutes after launch an order came down from the flagship, the USS Little Rock, to recall the planes. There's an account that it was done on orders from Defense Secretary Robert McNamara.
Sixth Fleet carrier division commander Lawrence Geis transmitted the message to the Saratoga to recall the planes, but he also told Captain Tully to prepare to launch planes 90 minutes later. At 1450 the order was given to send another group of rescue planes and at 1545 they took off. At 1639 McNamara ordered the recall of these planes. Reportedly Geis demanded confirmation of that recall order from the next higher up in the command, President Lyndon Johnson. Johnson confirmed it and told him that he would not have his allies embarrassed.
The reports about what McNamara and LBJ said are from an account by Liberty intelligence officer David Lewis who said he met privately with Geis after Liberty survivors had been rescued. He said Geis had wanted to assure him that the Saratoga had tried to help. Geis died in 1980 so he can't confirm Lewis' account, but surely there are records about these messages and orders about what went on that day in the Sixth Fleet buried in Navy files.
What would be the charge against McNamara? He denied aid to American troops when they were under deadly attack and as a result 20 some men died and many more were injured. I'm no lawyer, but I've been told that the applicable crime is treason.
There's also the matter of obstruction of justice for ordering a cover-up. There was a hasty Naval Court of Inquiry set up to find out what happened to the Liberty. The senior legal counsel for the court was Captain Ward Boston. Admiral Isaac Kidd was president of the Court. In an affidavit signed on January 9, 2004 Captain Ward (now retired) swears that, "Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attacks, as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack were aware that the ship was AmericanI know from personal conversations I had with Admiral Kidd that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."
The evidence that the attack was deliberate does seem "overwhelming". Here are some of the facts featured in a 2004 report by the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty that concluded the attack was no accident.
· Israeli planes had observed the Liberty for eight hours before the attack
· June 8 was a clear day with unlimited visibility
· Survivors testify that a 5 by 8 American flag was flying all day on the Liberty until it was shot away and replaced by an even larger flag.
· The flag was flying in a 12-knot breeze for most of the afternoon.
· The Liberty's five American radio channels were jammed during the attack. The Egyptian military did not broadcast on those frequencies.
· The Israelis machine-gunned the three life rafts the crew put out when it appeared the attack had let up. (This would assure there would be no survivors).
· The Israelis claimed the Liberty had been mistaken for an Egyptian ship. However the Egyptian ship, a 1920's era horse carrier was a quarter the size of the Liberty
Who was this Independent Commission? Its chairperson was Admiral Thomas Moorer (Ret.). Moorer had a storied career. He was one of the first pilots off the ground during the attack on Pearl Harbor. In his long career he held posts of chief of the Pacific fleet, later chief of the Atlantic fleet and eventually Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The other members of the commission were General of the Marines Raymond G. Davis, former Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps, Rear Admiral Merlin Starling, former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and Ambassador James Akins, former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. You could hardly ask for more expertise.
A last line of defense for those who claim that the Israeli attack was an accident concerns the question of motive. Why would Israel attack its "only friend in the world"? Well, for one Israel had plenty other friends. Recall it had fought a war in '56 alongside Britain and France without US support. Though it does seem quite mad for Israel to purposely attack the US that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Some theorize Israel wanted to sink the Liberty and blame it on Egypt as a way of getting US support, a supersized version of what their agents did in Cairo during the "Lavon Affair". Others think Israel wanted to cover up its plans for a ground attack on Syria. So let's find out. Even 40 years later a thorough investigation could come up with most of the truth.
If the Congress had any gumption it would demand the facts. We give Israel multi-billions a year. Congress could require that our Israeli client allow a team of naval investigators and translators examine internal Israeli military documents. Let them interview the Israeli pilots and commanders involved in the assault. Give the investigators a free hand to review all relevant US records.
Robert McNamara has never suffered a day for his crimes. After leaving the Johnson Administration he was appointed head of the World Bank and he held that post for 13 years. In 1995 he wrote a successful memoir "In Retrospect" and in 2003 was subject of an Academy Award winning documentary. He never apologized for anything, least of all to the men he purposely betrayed on the Liberty.
Arrest him.
-francoska intervencija
-enotna država
-delitev na sever in jug
-ameriška intervencija
-vojaški posegi severnega in južnega vietnama v kambodžo in laos
-ameriški umik
-združitev vietnama
-vietnamsko-kitajska vojna
(prišlo je tudi do kitajsko-sovjetskega konflikta na meji)
to vse kaže da je tudi tm bil en balkan
Samo vojna med Kitajsko in Vietnamim (obe kumunistični državi) dokazuje absurdnost in grotesknost vsega skupaj.
V takih konfliktih ni dobrih in slabih strani vse je samo odvisno od interpretacije.
Seveda 3 milijoni mrtvih Vietnamskih in Kamboških civilistov niso v članku zaslužili niti omembe. Na veliki zvon pa je, seveda, treba obešati 58.000 padlih ameriških vojakov.
RTV, niste resni.
Očitno se nisva razumela, nasprotoval sem samo enostranskemu poročanju. Tudi vojni zločinci niso črni ali beli. Zločini v vietnamu se lahko skrijejo pred tistimi nad japonsko a za njih ni nobeden odgovarjal ravno kot za tiste v vietnamu ne. Svetoval sem ogled dokumentarca, ki se mi osebno zdi zelo pluralen saj obravnava ameriške vojne zločine
Hotel sem tudi opozoriti da je oseba preprečila jedersko vojno, kar v novinarskemu sestavku manka.
In nič in nihče me nemore prepričati v nasprotno.Še najmanj dokumentarec financiran in posnet z strani medijskih hiš ki so krvavo vietnamsko vojno prikazovale kot popolnoma opravičljivo in nujno potrebno!
oprosti če sem te z biločim užalil ampak forum je tu za izražanje mnenj..
V Vietnamu je umrlo več kot 50.000 ameriških vojakov.
5. Dr. Kumrovec (6. julij 2009 ob 15:45)
To je približno več kot 16-krat toliko ljudi kot jih je umrlo na 9/11.
WTF!?!?
Zdej se bo lahko rokoval s Ho Shi Minom
Samo ne mi rečt,da si vietnamski veteran?Če si se ti opravičujem in te povsem razumem.
R.S. McNamara's eleven life lessons
1. Empathize with your enemy
2. Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are often both wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
mimogrede: knjige in splet so lahko ravno tako pristranski medi kot pristranske knjige.
.In ne hvala! Ni nam potrebno dokazovati kateri od vas imajo bolj prav.
mimogrede v filmu so obravnavane vse teme ki jih omenjaš objektivno in ni nobenih izmišljenih zgodbic, mož prizna vse napake, ki si jih omenil.
Če smo že pri temu vojno v Vietnamu je začel najbolj priljubljeni ameriški precednik, ki je mnogim še danes za vzgled in ga nekateri levi politiki posnemajo
Ogromne žrtve Amerike v Vietnamu tudi za našo svobodo ne bodo nikoli pozabljene.
e+Fog+of+War&emb=0#
To je link za ogled celotnega filma.
V Vietnamu je bilo ubitih okoli Miljon domačinov,ki so branili (in jo tudi ubranili)svojo zemljo.
McNamara JE BIL NAJPOMEMBNEJŠI ČLOVEK KI JE PREPREČIL JEDERSKO VOJNO MED AMERIKO IN SOVIJETSKO ZVEZO.
Odstavljen je bil ker se ni strinjal s politiko povečevanja ameriške prisotnosti v Vietnamu.
Svoje življenje je upodobil v filmu Meglice vojne -The Fog of War, ki je meni osebno eden najbojlših dokumentarcev. Priporočam ogled.
trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgA98V1Ub
k8
Slava mu?!?!?!??!?!? WTF?!?!?!
Seveda se "normalnim" to zdi čisto normalno,ostali pa smo paranoiki,ki v vsaki stvari vidimo zaroto :)))
Vsi,ki v tem vidimo neko povezavo pa ispademo bolniki,ki v vsaki stvari vidijo zaroto :)))..."Normalnim" pa se to zdi čisto normalno :)))